Fem Fest Benefit w/ Dirty Dee & Commonwealth!!!

Riotgrrrl56 wrote:
* In response: It took me years to finally find a music scene in which I truly felt accepted and that my opinions matter. I thought I had found that in the Nashville underground punk scene. Comments like these encourage unnecessary elitism and pretention that excludes a lot of amazing punkers and people. No one should be disregarded just because they are “newer” to a scene that someone else. Punk rock is one of my only reasons for living. Partly because I think it represents acceptance of marginalized people, who typically aren’t included elsewhere.


"Where else could they belong? Not in their high school, with the arcane codes & social norms that struck them as fake & pointless. & Not with their families, where drugs, abuse, & domestic dysfunction often made home like one more thing that had to be escaped. After surveying all the possibilities available to them-God, sports, drugs and booze, conforming to the culture around them-they had chosen PUNK. Punk made sense to these girls; it was one of the only things that did."- Sara Marcus in her book "Girls To The Front"


I have chosen punk because it makes sense to me and again.. I hope that you all understand that I would never want to make men sound “dominate” over women. Again, I meant “male-dominated local male scene” in the sense that there are predominately more male musicians than female musicians. Again, I would never want to make any female musicians feel inadequate or disregard what they do. I never said that local female musicians are weak or don’t have a strong enough voice. I only intended to encourage those not already in the scene who want to be to have their voices heard.

Darlin, I've accepted more new people into this scene over the past 30 years than you'll ever know. And once again, you're not gettin it. Its not the fact that we think you insulted us big bad boys, for me, your whole topic came across as a promo for Lilith Fair or somethin. And it sounds like everything that comes out of your mouth is some regurgitated quote out of some book you read or some poster or pamphlet you saw. You also made it sound like you were only concentrating on having female bands. That's like saying that you're having a benefit for the homeless but people who have homes can't come and help out because they wouldn't understand. Everyone has had great points and rationales that seem like original thoughts and opinions. And there's the difference and why your whole thread bugs me. You sound fake and contrived. And I've seen you at shows and you seem fake and contrived in real life. I may catch shit for all of this because I might be running away a potential user of the boards, but I'm not all PC about it. The most real people, especially the female ones, haven't even commented on all this. And when you spend as much time around Punk rock as some of us have, you'll find that it may be accepting, but its very elitist in the fact that people who seem fake are frowned upon. Stew on it for a while and see if anything I've said rings true if you can stop and look at yourself in the mirror truthfully instead of to see if ya put the right studs on your leather jacket or if your eyeliner is punk rock enough.

I dont want any new ladies to get the wrong idea and think these fellas are memebers of "NO MA'AM" or some shit, cause that aint how it is. I've never been treated with disrespect by any of the guys in this scene (especially Wak, cause I'd whoop that ass.) And if I, or any of us girls, that especially Mike & Wak are good friends with were disrespected...I'm pretty sure that guy wouldnt be hanging around this scene too long. Mikes put more into this scene than probably anybody, and if he feels like its being insulted, he's gonna stick up for it, and obviously, he's not gonna sugar coat it. This scene is accepting to anybody and everybody, and has been for as long as I can remember.

Now, do I think men and women are wired differently? Yeah, but that also doesnt mean one is inferior to the other. I'd rather not be wired like a dude, anyway. Embrace the differences and move on.

Lastly, none of us ladies have ever been afraid to have our voices or ideas be heard. Girls in bands or just watching the bands, opening our mouths and letting people know what we think has never been a problem. Hell, most of the time you cant get some of us to pipe down. Male domination hasnt been an issue with us because the scenes just not male dominated, simple as that. Our Nashville punk rock women are tough as nails and I'd be scared for any fella that tried to "dominate" them or keep 'em quiet.

(Regardless of how the system works, this place needs donations to continue helping the community. It's only a $3 show, so it aint gonna break your bank.)

I'm not fighting with you on that being a very low cost show. I however live really close to the cuff. Please don't assume that everyone can or will be able to pay for a donation though. In my case both of us live off a fixed income. By this time of the month it's picking or choosing weather we need to eat or get medicine refilled. A lot of the time we don't eat for three or four days before we get money again. I'd rather give them the money than pay the court costs any day. I have a feeling that if I walked into the domestic violence center and handed the person at the desk $3 some one would thank me. If I give the court clerk $3 she gives me a snide look and then some attitude as if she want's to say "you are wasting my time with that little money." I'm just trying to get by and I'm afraid all I have to offer right now is good wishes.

Whoa whoa, if I may interject, I think it needs to be said that it is obvious the last sentence at the end of the original post could be (and has been, apparently) construed as a negative comment on the Nashville scene (though I have seen the word "dominate" used many times in text and speech in describing something that composes a majority). This has been established. She acknowledged this several times and even apologized for it. It's also pretty clear she in no way meant to belittle the "scene" or suggest that its women are weak and are afraid to play punk rock.

How such a very benign comment has now become some meditated attack on Nashville punk and its women is beyond me. Here is what she meant: she wants to encourage girls "to break their silence and have their voices and ideas be heard" (i.e. sing in a band) and "in a male-dominated local music scene" (i.e. most bands have only guy member/singers). There is nothing here that says men have a vice grip on the scene nor does it say that women are afraid to have their voices heard, it is simply encouraging them to start bands. That's all.

It has been mentioned that there are some female/female fronted local punk bands but it is still only a handful, a drop in the pond. I don't see what's wrong in trying to get more girls to play in bands anyway. Are organizations that try to get kids to play instruments wrong in some way? Are they saying that kids are too scared to learn, so "we have to force them to learn"? NO! It is just to help them learn.

Also, why is it such a huge stretch of the imagination that a person putting on a benefit called "FemFest" would want to have female performers?

Mike_sims wrote:Darlin, I've accepted more new people into this scene over the past 30 years than you'll ever know. And once again, you're not gettin it. Its not the fact that we think you insulted us big bad boys, for me, your whole topic came across as a promo for Lilith Fair or somethin. And it sounds like everything that comes out of your mouth is some regurgitated quote out of some book you read or some poster or pamphlet you saw. You also made it sound like you were only concentrating on having female bands. That's like saying that you're having a benefit for the homeless but people who have homes can't come and help out because they wouldn't understand. Everyone has had great points and rationales that seem like original thoughts and opinions. And there's the difference and why your whole thread bugs me. You sound fake and contrived. And I've seen you at shows and you seem fake and contrived in real life. I may catch shit for all of this because I might be running away a potential user of the boards, but I'm not all PC about it. The most real people, especially the female ones, haven't even commented on all this. And when you spend as much time around Punk rock as some of us have, you'll find that it may be accepting, but its very elitist in the fact that people who seem fake are frowned upon. Stew on it for a while and see if anything I've said rings true if you can stop and look at yourself in the mirror truthfully instead of to see if ya put the right studs on your leather jacket or if your eyeliner is punk rock enough.

Mike -Actually no, the correct analogy would be: that's like saying you're having a benefit for homeless people but you only want homeless people to perform (which is actually a good idea as there are lots of very talented homeless people). She's not excluding men from coming to the event. She not excluding anyone. Where did you even get this from?

Who's belittling who now? Yeah, she may have *gasp* read some books and articles and quoted them in a relevant manner, but in what way does that make her fake? Reading things is inauthentic now? Not punk? I think we could all benefit from sitting down and reading a book instead of making surface judgments on who is and isn't "real."

Also, what does her appearance at shows have to do with being fake? Your just casting aspersions on somebody you claim to have seen at a show once or twice and think that you are imparting some sage advice that one day she will see the error of her ways in gathering female musicians for a good cause. Actually, I think she will be just fine with her so-called "leather jacket" and "punk rock eyeliner." If you want to debate something, debate her ideas not her "realness," man.

Other stuff:

wakmaster wrote:

*i can't sing for shit, but i'll sing off key with no shame in front of anyone. my wife can sing really well, she just doesn't want to do it in front of people. we are wired differently. she's wired like the majority of girls and i'm wired like a lot of dudes.

Wak - Men and women may be "wired" differently but it is just patently false that most women are "wired" to avoid singing in front of people. Exactly what part of the female brain is wired to keep them from singing in front of people? Do you not see the absurdity here?

Also, if you really think that that Bikini Kill song really brainwashed anybody to think that male teachers force Sylvia Plath's work on women writers as a way to tell them that they must commit suicide is the same as agreeing with those pricks who claimed listening to Ozzy's "Suicide Solution" caused that kid to commit suicide. You'll have to pick a better "propaganda" example.

scottyisnotty wrote:

Mike_sims wrote:Darlin, I've accepted more new people into this scene over the past 30 years than you'll ever know. And once again, you're not gettin it. Its not the fact that we think you insulted us big bad boys, for me, your whole topic came across as a promo for Lilith Fair or somethin. And it sounds like everything that comes out of your mouth is some regurgitated quote out of some book you read or some poster or pamphlet you saw. You also made it sound like you were only concentrating on having female bands. That's like saying that you're having a benefit for the homeless but people who have homes can't come and help out because they wouldn't understand. Everyone has had great points and rationales that seem like original thoughts and opinions. And there's the difference and why your whole thread bugs me. You sound fake and contrived. And I've seen you at shows and you seem fake and contrived in real life. I may catch shit for all of this because I might be running away a potential user of the boards, but I'm not all PC about it. The most real people, especially the female ones, haven't even commented on all this. And when you spend as much time around Punk rock as some of us have, you'll find that it may be accepting, but its very elitist in the fact that people who seem fake are frowned upon. Stew on it for a while and see if anything I've said rings true if you can stop and look at yourself in the mirror truthfully instead of to see if ya put the right studs on your leather jacket or if your eyeliner is punk rock enough.

Mike -Actually no, the correct analogy would be: that's like saying you're having a benefit for homeless people but you only want homeless people to perform (which is actually a good idea as there are lots of very talented homeless people). She's not excluding men from coming to the event. She not excluding anyone. Where did you even get this from?

Who's belittling who now? Yeah, she may have *gasp* read some books and articles and quoted them in a relevant manner, but in what way does that make her fake? Reading things is inauthentic now? Not punk? I think we could all benefit from sitting down and reading a book instead of making surface judgments on who is and isn't "real."

Also, what does her appearance at shows have to do with being fake? Your just casting aspersions on somebody you claim to have seen at a show once or twice and think that you are imparting some sage advice that one day she will see the error of her ways in gathering female musicians for a good cause. Actually, I think she will be just fine with her so-called "leather jacket" and "punk rock eyeliner." If you want to debate something, debate her ideas not her "realness," man.

My point is that to me, from what I've seen of her before, and trust me, from watching her run her fingers over the studs on my singers jacket and coo about how much she loves his jacket and how cool it is, it makes her look like a trendy little scene slut that is looking for attention. So its not that I've just seen her at some shows, its the fact that, like I said before, she comes off as really fake and contrived. I'm not arguing that this isn't a good cause, but the opening lines about how her and her friends were putting together a fem fest, to me, made it all about how cool she is gonna be for doing this. Why couldn't it have just been, "hey, this shelter really needs help and a benefit is being put together to raise money. Any bands that are interested please contact me." Like I said, the whole build up and terminology that was used rubbed me and a lot of other people wrong. I know that opinions are like assholes and that everyone has one and most of them stink, but that's mine.

I have ALWAYS, and by always I mean like for 25 years always, felt welcomed and loved by the men and the women in the Nashville scene. Granted, I am not musician so I can't comment from a personal view on the idea of females not feeling as "welcome" (for lack of a better word) in bands in the area. I can say that the women I knew back in the day and the women I know now, did not, do not or ever have felt that it was harder to start a band or do a fucking thing in Nashville because men were the dominating factor. Why aren't there more female bands? I don't fucking know, but I know it has NOTHING to do with guys shutting them out.

Riotgrrrl56, I think trying to raise money for any charity is an awesome thing but with that one statement of male dominated music, whether worded badly or not, you made us females look weak and in need of our own benefit to have our puny, girly voices heard and that just pisses me right the fuck off. Good luck, I hope you raise tons of cash. But, please, don't make statements that girls in the scene need help to speak up because if we have something to say and wanna be heard or an instrument to play or a song to sing, trust me, you will hear us and we don't need any goddamn help to do it.

Love you Jules.

Love ya too, Mikey!

Okay, let's look at this from another perspective. Regardless of who's dominating whom in our scene, I think it's safe to say that victims of domestic abuse have certainly been dominated in a sense that is indisputably negative. If we further accept as fact the statement that these victims are overwhelmingly female, we have now made a very good case that these victims need to witness our punk rock females, many of whom have been subjected to one form or another of abuse themselves, standing up as an example that women can be strong, and further, they can do it with denying their own femininity.

Matt Benson wrote:Okay, let's look at this from another perspective. Regardless of who's dominating whom in our scene, I think it's safe to say that victims of domestic abuse have certainly been dominated in a sense that is indisputably negative. If we further accept as fact the statement that these victims are overwhelmingly female, we have now made a very good case that these victims need to witness our punk rock females, many of whom have been subjected to one form or another of abuse themselves, standing up as an example that women can be strong, and further, they can do it with denying their own femininity.

Now see, this makes sense. To say, "Let's be an example of strong women." sounds a whole lot better to me.

Wak - Men and women may be "wired" differently but it is just patently false that most women are "wired" to avoid singing in front of people. Exactly what part of the female brain is wired to keep them from singing in front of people? Do you not see the absurdity here?

Also, if you really think that that Bikini Kill song really brainwashed anybody to think that male teachers force Sylvia Plath's work on women writers as a way to tell them that they must commit suicide is the same as agreeing with those pricks who claimed listening to Ozzy's "Suicide Solution" caused that kid to commit suicide. You'll have to pick a better "propaganda" example.

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Scotty2hotty- I know there are such a thing as women performers. There are countless women performers. But with all those women performers, why do females that don't perform need to be told the get their voices heard? SOME WANT TO PERFORM and SOME DON'T!

also these are the lyrics i was refering to:

The Sylvia Plath story is told to girls who write
They want us to think that to be a girl poet means you have to die
Who is it that told me all the girls who write must suicide?

I've another good one for you,
We are turning cursive letters into knives.


Where's the problem?

Mike_Sims wrote:
My point is that to me, from what I've seen of her before, and trust me, from watching her run her fingers over the studs on my singers jacket and coo about how much she loves his jacket and how cool it is, it makes her look like a trendy little scene slut that is looking for attention. So its not that I've just seen her at some shows, its the fact that, like I said before, she comes off as really fake and contrived. I'm not arguing that this isn't a good cause, but the opening lines about how her and her friends were putting together a fem fest, to me, made it all about how cool she is gonna be for doing this. Why couldn't it have just been, "hey, this shelter really needs help and a benefit is being put together to raise money. Any bands that are interested please contact me." Like I said, the whole build up and terminology that was used rubbed me and a lot of other people wrong. I know that opinions are like assholes and that everyone has one and most of them stink, but that's mine.

Still, I fail to see how she is fake and contrived or how you are doing anything but making up shit about somebody you don't know. Complimenting somebody's jacket makes them a trendy scene slut? (Calling her a slut also, really? Need I even mention the sexism in this comment?) Maybe the attention seeking whore is the "big bad boy" wearing the super-duper studded punk jacket in the first place. See? I can do it too.

Also, I thought you were all about not being "PC" yet you nitpick every word of the post and complain about how it rubs you the wrong way. So we are supposed to comb over each and every word before we post it in case it offends someone's delicate sensibilities?

To say it rubbed people the wrong way is an understatement. You and others make it seem like she took a shit in your bed. She just made a post about an upcoming show with one little sentence at the end that some people here have blown completely out of proportion. She also needlessly apologized, GET OVER IT. Chill out.

Also where's this acceptance and understanding everyone's talking about? All I've seen so far is a hive mentality. I do appreciate Matt's comment and completely support what he said.

But just to ask a question here, if the original post said "let's be an example of strong women" would you not get all over that saying it assumes women are generally weak? Well this statement DOES NOT assume that just as the original post DOES NOT assume that Nashville's punk women are weak. It sounds like you just have some personal vendetta and putting a spin on her words for sake of argument.

Wakattack - They don't need to be told to get their voices heard, this is simply an avenue for them to do so, as a way to support women suffering from domestic abuse.

I don't know the problem with the Bikini Kill lyrics either, which is the whole point.

Julie - Honestly, everyone could use some help every now and then to speak up, both men and women, inside or outside of this oh holy scene. Especially victims of abuse, who do have trouble talking about their experiences. She was just asking for female performers because this is a FEMFEST benefit for the domestic violence shelter.

It's really disheartening to see such responses, none of us here are enemies. It seems everyone here has a chip on their shoulder over this, maybe it's time to knock it off.

I can fix this then since it seems everyone has said their fill.